RHEDESIUM INTERVIEW
INTERVIEW WITH CHRISTIAN DOUMERGUE
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Welcome to Rhedesium, and thank you for agreeing to do this interview. For the benefit of our readers, who are mainly English speakers, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? How did you discover 'Rennes-le- Château' and its enigmas?
I was born in 1976 and I'm French. Therefore, excuse me if my English is not very correct... I hold a Master’s degree in History of Art and Archaeology (The figuration of the eye in the art of Paleolithic), a Master’s degree in Literature (The Myth of loneliness in the life and works of Emily Brontë and Emily Dickinson), and of a Post-Graduate diploma in Literature (Melancholy and Mysticism in the works of Saint John of the Cross, Emily Brontë, Emily Dickinson and Mylène Farmer). I discovered the enigma of Rennes-le-Château in the mid 1990’s when i watched a French TV show... After which I read some books on this subject, such as Holy Blood and Holy Grail... And I also visited Rennes-le-Château... Afterwards I read other books... Etc. In 1997, I published my first work on the subject: Rennes-le-Château, le Grand Héritage (Rennes-le-Chateau, the great legacy (not translated into English)). In 2000, I wrote a second book: Bérenger Saunière, prêtre libre à Rennes-le-Château (Bérenger Saunière, free priest at Rennes-le-Château (not translated into English)). Then I discovered (before Da Vinci Code), the figure of Mary Magdalene and I understood then the importance she represents from the point of view of the History of Christianity and of the Western world in general... In 2001, I published L’Evangile Interdit: Marie Madeleine et le secret des Cathares (The forbidden gospel: Mary Magdalene and the Cathar’s Secret (not translated into English)), then: Marie-Madeleine: la Reine Oubliée (Mary Magdalene: the forgotten queen (not translated into English)) in two volumes of 1200 pages. In 2005, I wrote a popular scientific work about the Gnostic’s gospels (La Gnose pour tous (The gnosis for all (not translated into English)). In 2006, a new book about Rennes-le-Château: L’affaire de Rennes-le-Château (The Rennes-le-Château case (not translated into English)) in two volumes (reprinted as one volume in 2007). And, the same year: Le Mystère Marie-Madeleine (The Mystery of Mary Magdalene (not translated into English)), an abstract of my previous works on the subsubject... My last book was published in March, 2008. In this book named La Tombe perdue (The Lost Tomb (not translated into English)) I affirm that Mary Magdalene went to the South of France approximately in 50AD and she buried here the body of Christ with the support of some Roman high-ranking persons...
From my own research, I have often come across your publications. You seem to be focused on Mary Magdalene. How did you then suddenly be writing about the 'tomb of Jesus'? In fact, I have been working on this idea from 1997. In my first book, I spoke about the presence of the tomb of Christ in the area of Rennes-le-Château. And in my books about Mary Magdalene, I also suggest this idea. If I want to write a book that concerns only this subject it’s because, after many years of research, I have several elements leading to this conclusion. And that these elements were, at this moment, enough to give rise to a book. |
I was interested to read your assertions in your about to be published new book. Which parts of the Mary Magdalene Tradition did you find which talked of her bringing back a mummified body? Why do you think it is the body of the historical person we now know as Jesus Christ?
There are many traditions in medieval texts about the Magdalene, which speak about bodies which would have been returned to the South of France by Magdalene. For example, the traditions connected with the little town of Les Saintes Maries de la Mer assert that bodies of the holy Innocents. (Christians persecuted by the Jews) were repatriated in the South of France.
These texts however, did not say that one of these bodies was the body of Christ. But, several elements let us suppose it. First, there is the Gospel of John. In this gospel, Magdalene, after she went to the tomb of Jesus and found it empty, says that she wants to find the body of Jesus and take it with her (chapter 20)... It’s impossible to think that Magdalene came to France without this body if she found it in Judea... Now, the comparison between the Gospel of John and some old Jewish traditions, attested to in the writings of Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225), allows us to establish that Magdalene found the body of Jesus...
You have a very interesting picture on your website - that of a boat full of figures with 'halo's' and a mummified body in the boat. Can you tell us more about this, its date and provenance?
This reliquary is preserved in the cave of Sainte Baume (South of France). According to the local traditions, it is in this cave that Magdalene ended her life... The reliquary represents Magdalene and her close relations in the boat which drove them the from East to the South of France. At the front of the boat, a mummified body is stretched out. A woman sits over this body. She has the mother of Jesus' attributes. Now, no tradition says that the Virgin Mary came to the South of France. She is thus there only to identify the mummified body! The reliquary was ordered by Mgr Terris and was made by a jeweller who lived in the city of Lyon: Armand Caillat. It was shown at the “Exposition Universelle” (World Fair) of Paris in 1889. It was given to the sanctuary of Sainte Baume by Paul Terris, the nephew of Mgr Terris... Officially (for the Catholics), the reliquary represents the displacement of the body of Saint Anna (the grandmother of Christ) by Mary Magdalene. Indeed, some legends affirm that the body of Saint Anna was brought back to Gaul by Mary Magdalene. It would rest in the crypt of a church of the city of Apt (in the French's departement named Vaucluse, in the South of France...) But, in my opinion, these legends concerning Saint Anna’s body were manufactured to hide the memory of the repatriation of the body of Jesus in Gaul. Indeed, these legends appear tardily. And, mysteriously, no text relative to Mary Magdalene speaks about the repatriation of the body of Saint Anna. These legends are present only at Apt. As if one had erased in the texts anything relating to Mary Magdalene’s repatriation of a body of a member of Jesus's family from the East to the West...(3)
There are many traditions in medieval texts about the Magdalene, which speak about bodies which would have been returned to the South of France by Magdalene. For example, the traditions connected with the little town of Les Saintes Maries de la Mer assert that bodies of the holy Innocents. (Christians persecuted by the Jews) were repatriated in the South of France.
These texts however, did not say that one of these bodies was the body of Christ. But, several elements let us suppose it. First, there is the Gospel of John. In this gospel, Magdalene, after she went to the tomb of Jesus and found it empty, says that she wants to find the body of Jesus and take it with her (chapter 20)... It’s impossible to think that Magdalene came to France without this body if she found it in Judea... Now, the comparison between the Gospel of John and some old Jewish traditions, attested to in the writings of Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225), allows us to establish that Magdalene found the body of Jesus...
You have a very interesting picture on your website - that of a boat full of figures with 'halo's' and a mummified body in the boat. Can you tell us more about this, its date and provenance?
This reliquary is preserved in the cave of Sainte Baume (South of France). According to the local traditions, it is in this cave that Magdalene ended her life... The reliquary represents Magdalene and her close relations in the boat which drove them the from East to the South of France. At the front of the boat, a mummified body is stretched out. A woman sits over this body. She has the mother of Jesus' attributes. Now, no tradition says that the Virgin Mary came to the South of France. She is thus there only to identify the mummified body! The reliquary was ordered by Mgr Terris and was made by a jeweller who lived in the city of Lyon: Armand Caillat. It was shown at the “Exposition Universelle” (World Fair) of Paris in 1889. It was given to the sanctuary of Sainte Baume by Paul Terris, the nephew of Mgr Terris... Officially (for the Catholics), the reliquary represents the displacement of the body of Saint Anna (the grandmother of Christ) by Mary Magdalene. Indeed, some legends affirm that the body of Saint Anna was brought back to Gaul by Mary Magdalene. It would rest in the crypt of a church of the city of Apt (in the French's departement named Vaucluse, in the South of France...) But, in my opinion, these legends concerning Saint Anna’s body were manufactured to hide the memory of the repatriation of the body of Jesus in Gaul. Indeed, these legends appear tardily. And, mysteriously, no text relative to Mary Magdalene speaks about the repatriation of the body of Saint Anna. These legends are present only at Apt. As if one had erased in the texts anything relating to Mary Magdalene’s repatriation of a body of a member of Jesus's family from the East to the West...(3)
Your new work seems to revolve around a pivotal text, one dated to 720AD. How have you verified the date of composition, and its authenticity? Who is the author? Very often apocryphal texts are not written by those authors ascribed to them .... from what group did the text really spring from? Has it been studied by Medieval historians? How did it end up in the National Library of France?
The title of this text is “The Avenging of the Saviour”. There are several copies of this text. A copy is preserved at St Omer's municipal library (St Omer is a town situated in the North of France). It has been studied by historians. It is a manuscript of the IXth century. This manuscript comes from the Benedictine abbey of Saint-Bertin. This version contains several faults of copies (errors of copying by scribes is the meaning here (ed) ) which supposes the existence of a source text. Ernst von Dobschütz (who was professor at the University of Halle, the University of Breslau and the University of Strasbourg (1870-1934)) dates this source text to the pre-Carolingian period. He dates its writing between 700 and 720. He places its writing in the South of Gaul.
This copy of this text is an abbreviated version of the source text. The copy of the National Library is more complete. It was written between the IXth century and the XIth century. This version includes a development about a crypt dedicated to Jesus built by the emperor Tiberius in the South of France... For me, it is the oldest literary indication ever found which refers to a construction of the grave of Christ in the South of France! I did not try to know how the National Library had acquired this text. There are other copies of this text among which three translations in old English are copied from the St Omer's fragmentary version (Cambridge, University Library, Ii.2. ii (XIth c.), London, British Library, Cotton Vespasian D. 14 (XII the c.), and Cambridge, Corpus Christi College, 196, (XIth c.))
The text is anonymous. It is not attributed to an author.
What group did the text really spring from? This is a complex question! This text is a late compilation of several texts and traditions. There is no unique source but multiple sources. One of these sources was probably “heretic”. In its final version, the text was rewritten by “catholic” hands. A study of the text shows that on this rewrite certain details of the original version were erased and replaced by others... For example, this text evokes a woman named Veronica who comes to Rome to meet Tiberius and bring to the emperor an "image" of Christ. The analysis of the text allows us to establish that this Veronica replaces Magdalene. And that the “image” of Christ replaces the body of Christ. Several elements allow venturing to this conclusion such as the fact that Veronica pronounces, word for word, words associated with the Magdalene in the Gospel of John. And the fact that the text of these words that apply to this mysterious “image” of Christ concern the body of Jesus in the same Gospel of John!
Which classical authors of antiquity (not counting legends) refer to Mary Magdalene meeting Tiberius?
None. Because for the classical authors, for the historians of these times, it is a detail. They doubtless had no knowledge of this meeting. In this time, Jesus is an unknown man. Magdalene is an unknown woman. This meeting was private. And it had no notorious public consequence. There was no reason for it to hold attention of Roman historians. Only the Christian circles kept the memory of this meeting. So, we have the ancient trace of this meeting only in the Christian literature. The most ancient trace is in the “Acts of Pilatus”. This text was written in the IVth century.
If the manuscript is authentic, it would be fascinating and revelatory, that the author describes the building of an underground crypt to house the body of Jesus Christ. Does it describe how the site was chosen, who planned its design, and who actually built it?
The text is very imprecise. It just says that Tiberius built a cave and that he dedicated it to Jesus. It localizes this cave but says nothing as for the choice of this site. As I have said, the current version of this passage is fragmentary and has been rewritten. It has also sudden deformations. The historic analysis of the text demonstrates that the Emperor did not himself come to the South of France to build the crypt but ordered its construction...
Why would Tiberius, if it was all down to his work, be interested in conserving the body of this historical figure of Jesus Christ, when he was not known as such at the time?
The explanation is simple. It is not a monument to honour a new god. It is not a public building but a private memorial. And it is not a public affair but a private affair. To understand it, it is necessary for us to go back to the trial of Jesus... At this moment, the wife of Pilate intervenes to save Jesus. Pilate listens to his wife. He agrees with her. But he cannot save Jesus for political reasons. Certain historians assert that the wife of Pilate wanted to save Jesus because she was Christian. It is a very likely hypothesis. We can suppose that the wife of Pilate knew Magdalene. The Gospel of Luke shows that Magdalene is a woman of high social rank... Some years after the crucifixion, persecutions are begun against certain Christians of Jerusalem. These Christians have to leave Jerusalem. They are the Hellenistic Christians of the Acts of the Apostles. Among them was Magdalene. On this occasion, the wife of Pilate, leaving Judea too, helped Magdalene. It is thanks to the wife of Pilate that Magdalene was able to meet Tiberius. We possess little information on the wife of Pilate. But important information is given by the Apocrypha. The name of the wife of Pilate is Claudia Procula. To understand the importance of this name, it is necessary to know the Roman onomastic system. The Romans carried the system of Tria Nomina (Three names). In this system, an individual is appointed by three names: the praenomen, the nomen, and the cognomen. Generally, the Roman historians recorded only nomen and cognomen. This is the case for Claudia Procula. The nomen is important. It indicates the membership in a Gens. The Gens is the family in the broad sense: all the later individuals of a common ancestor. Thus, the name Claudia Procula indicates that the wife of Pilate belonged to the Gens Claudia. Now, Tiberius belonged to this family.
And therefore, Tiberius and Claudia Procula belonged to the same family! The emperor helped Magdalene further because of the intervention of Claudia Procula. He gave to Magdalene the means to honour the body of Jesus by offering him a deserving grave. It is thus a private affair! In several other examples, Tiberius had before took certain measures further to an affair concerning close relations.
Is the crypt within the vicinity of Rennes-le-Château?
The text written in 720 does not place the crypt built by Tiberius near Rennes-le-Château... The crypt is situated in the crossing of two streams: the Hérault and the Tincta.. Tincta changed names.
The title of this text is “The Avenging of the Saviour”. There are several copies of this text. A copy is preserved at St Omer's municipal library (St Omer is a town situated in the North of France). It has been studied by historians. It is a manuscript of the IXth century. This manuscript comes from the Benedictine abbey of Saint-Bertin. This version contains several faults of copies (errors of copying by scribes is the meaning here (ed) ) which supposes the existence of a source text. Ernst von Dobschütz (who was professor at the University of Halle, the University of Breslau and the University of Strasbourg (1870-1934)) dates this source text to the pre-Carolingian period. He dates its writing between 700 and 720. He places its writing in the South of Gaul.
This copy of this text is an abbreviated version of the source text. The copy of the National Library is more complete. It was written between the IXth century and the XIth century. This version includes a development about a crypt dedicated to Jesus built by the emperor Tiberius in the South of France... For me, it is the oldest literary indication ever found which refers to a construction of the grave of Christ in the South of France! I did not try to know how the National Library had acquired this text. There are other copies of this text among which three translations in old English are copied from the St Omer's fragmentary version (Cambridge, University Library, Ii.2. ii (XIth c.), London, British Library, Cotton Vespasian D. 14 (XII the c.), and Cambridge, Corpus Christi College, 196, (XIth c.))
The text is anonymous. It is not attributed to an author.
What group did the text really spring from? This is a complex question! This text is a late compilation of several texts and traditions. There is no unique source but multiple sources. One of these sources was probably “heretic”. In its final version, the text was rewritten by “catholic” hands. A study of the text shows that on this rewrite certain details of the original version were erased and replaced by others... For example, this text evokes a woman named Veronica who comes to Rome to meet Tiberius and bring to the emperor an "image" of Christ. The analysis of the text allows us to establish that this Veronica replaces Magdalene. And that the “image” of Christ replaces the body of Christ. Several elements allow venturing to this conclusion such as the fact that Veronica pronounces, word for word, words associated with the Magdalene in the Gospel of John. And the fact that the text of these words that apply to this mysterious “image” of Christ concern the body of Jesus in the same Gospel of John!
Which classical authors of antiquity (not counting legends) refer to Mary Magdalene meeting Tiberius?
None. Because for the classical authors, for the historians of these times, it is a detail. They doubtless had no knowledge of this meeting. In this time, Jesus is an unknown man. Magdalene is an unknown woman. This meeting was private. And it had no notorious public consequence. There was no reason for it to hold attention of Roman historians. Only the Christian circles kept the memory of this meeting. So, we have the ancient trace of this meeting only in the Christian literature. The most ancient trace is in the “Acts of Pilatus”. This text was written in the IVth century.
If the manuscript is authentic, it would be fascinating and revelatory, that the author describes the building of an underground crypt to house the body of Jesus Christ. Does it describe how the site was chosen, who planned its design, and who actually built it?
The text is very imprecise. It just says that Tiberius built a cave and that he dedicated it to Jesus. It localizes this cave but says nothing as for the choice of this site. As I have said, the current version of this passage is fragmentary and has been rewritten. It has also sudden deformations. The historic analysis of the text demonstrates that the Emperor did not himself come to the South of France to build the crypt but ordered its construction...
Why would Tiberius, if it was all down to his work, be interested in conserving the body of this historical figure of Jesus Christ, when he was not known as such at the time?
The explanation is simple. It is not a monument to honour a new god. It is not a public building but a private memorial. And it is not a public affair but a private affair. To understand it, it is necessary for us to go back to the trial of Jesus... At this moment, the wife of Pilate intervenes to save Jesus. Pilate listens to his wife. He agrees with her. But he cannot save Jesus for political reasons. Certain historians assert that the wife of Pilate wanted to save Jesus because she was Christian. It is a very likely hypothesis. We can suppose that the wife of Pilate knew Magdalene. The Gospel of Luke shows that Magdalene is a woman of high social rank... Some years after the crucifixion, persecutions are begun against certain Christians of Jerusalem. These Christians have to leave Jerusalem. They are the Hellenistic Christians of the Acts of the Apostles. Among them was Magdalene. On this occasion, the wife of Pilate, leaving Judea too, helped Magdalene. It is thanks to the wife of Pilate that Magdalene was able to meet Tiberius. We possess little information on the wife of Pilate. But important information is given by the Apocrypha. The name of the wife of Pilate is Claudia Procula. To understand the importance of this name, it is necessary to know the Roman onomastic system. The Romans carried the system of Tria Nomina (Three names). In this system, an individual is appointed by three names: the praenomen, the nomen, and the cognomen. Generally, the Roman historians recorded only nomen and cognomen. This is the case for Claudia Procula. The nomen is important. It indicates the membership in a Gens. The Gens is the family in the broad sense: all the later individuals of a common ancestor. Thus, the name Claudia Procula indicates that the wife of Pilate belonged to the Gens Claudia. Now, Tiberius belonged to this family.
And therefore, Tiberius and Claudia Procula belonged to the same family! The emperor helped Magdalene further because of the intervention of Claudia Procula. He gave to Magdalene the means to honour the body of Jesus by offering him a deserving grave. It is thus a private affair! In several other examples, Tiberius had before took certain measures further to an affair concerning close relations.
Is the crypt within the vicinity of Rennes-le-Château?
The text written in 720 does not place the crypt built by Tiberius near Rennes-le-Château... The crypt is situated in the crossing of two streams: the Hérault and the Tincta.. Tincta changed names.
The current name of Tincta is Thongue. This site is situated in the French department named Hérault in the South of France... We are here far enough from Rennes-le-Château.
Both streams cross themselves near a village named Saint Thibery. In this name, we recognize phonetically the name of Tiberius. It is probably the memory of an action of the emperor in this perimeter. The site was occupied in the Roman time and we found a road inscription there mentioning the construction of a road by Tiberius! There is more: Saint Thibery's church preserves the relics of a "Saint Tibère". This saint is not known in oldest martyrologies... Does this "saint Tibère" hint at the emperor? Does this cult keep the memory of an action of the emperor in favour of Christianity? All this makes of Saint Thibery an interesting place! |
But, my opinion is that the cave is somewhere else.
It seems however that the author of the text of 720 made an error concerning the location. The hypothesis which I present asserts that the cave built by Tiberius was located in the crossing of the two rivers Herault and Tincta because Tiberius was involved in constructions situated not far off this point.
Why? It is complicated to explain in few words. The historic study of the text shows that its author confused the emperors Tiberius and Claudius. In its Roman form, both emperors had a name very close: Tiberius Claudius Drusus (for Claudius) and Tiberius Claudius Nero (for Tiberius). Seven hundred years later and after some rewriting the confusion was easy! This confusion is important. If an emperor replaced another emperor in the text of 720 AD, did not a location replace another location? As I said, it seems that the crypt was located near to Saint Thibery because the construction of the grave of Jesus was attributed to Tiberus. If it is indeed Claudius that ordered the construction of the grave of Jesus, where is the grave? An apocryphal text concerning Claudia Procula is very important here. This text asserts that Claudia Procula after her return to France withdrew to a country of mountains that the text calls the “country of rhedons”! This sounds like the description of Rennes-les-Bains. In Roman time, Rennes les Bains was a small spa village named Aquae Calidis... Several elements allow concluding that it is there that was built the crypt with the support of the emperor.
Do you think Sauniere, Boudet, Gelis and others knew about this crypt? Are there other burials and treasures with the body?
I do not think that Saunière and Gelis knew this crypt. For Boudet, it is very likely. In his book “La Vraie langue celtique” he mentions clearly the existence of an antique grave in Rennes les Bains. How? He writes that menhirs are ancient graves. Then he writes that a cromleck is always built around a menhir. This is a way of saying to us that the artificial cromleck which he draws contains an ancient grave. In his introduction, he asserts that this cromleck is connected to the "resurrection"... Other elements of his text drop hints about Magdalene... For the second part of your question, I think that it is a collective grave. This grave contains probably the bodies of Magdalene and Jesus and also of Christians such as Claudia Procula (but it is a supposition!) We do not possess ancient elements on this subject. But the text entitled “Serpent Rouge" speaks about this underground crypt by evoking several graves. “Serpent Rouge” is a very important text. It was writing by somebody who returned into the crypt...
Is the crypt 'booby trapped'? Is it easily marked, and would it be feasible for an excavation to take place? Have you done any archaeological surveying?
I do not think that the crypt is booty trapped... I did not realize archaeological surveying. Concerning the grave of Rennes les Bains the place is not known exactly.
It seems however that the author of the text of 720 made an error concerning the location. The hypothesis which I present asserts that the cave built by Tiberius was located in the crossing of the two rivers Herault and Tincta because Tiberius was involved in constructions situated not far off this point.
Why? It is complicated to explain in few words. The historic study of the text shows that its author confused the emperors Tiberius and Claudius. In its Roman form, both emperors had a name very close: Tiberius Claudius Drusus (for Claudius) and Tiberius Claudius Nero (for Tiberius). Seven hundred years later and after some rewriting the confusion was easy! This confusion is important. If an emperor replaced another emperor in the text of 720 AD, did not a location replace another location? As I said, it seems that the crypt was located near to Saint Thibery because the construction of the grave of Jesus was attributed to Tiberus. If it is indeed Claudius that ordered the construction of the grave of Jesus, where is the grave? An apocryphal text concerning Claudia Procula is very important here. This text asserts that Claudia Procula after her return to France withdrew to a country of mountains that the text calls the “country of rhedons”! This sounds like the description of Rennes-les-Bains. In Roman time, Rennes les Bains was a small spa village named Aquae Calidis... Several elements allow concluding that it is there that was built the crypt with the support of the emperor.
Do you think Sauniere, Boudet, Gelis and others knew about this crypt? Are there other burials and treasures with the body?
I do not think that Saunière and Gelis knew this crypt. For Boudet, it is very likely. In his book “La Vraie langue celtique” he mentions clearly the existence of an antique grave in Rennes les Bains. How? He writes that menhirs are ancient graves. Then he writes that a cromleck is always built around a menhir. This is a way of saying to us that the artificial cromleck which he draws contains an ancient grave. In his introduction, he asserts that this cromleck is connected to the "resurrection"... Other elements of his text drop hints about Magdalene... For the second part of your question, I think that it is a collective grave. This grave contains probably the bodies of Magdalene and Jesus and also of Christians such as Claudia Procula (but it is a supposition!) We do not possess ancient elements on this subject. But the text entitled “Serpent Rouge" speaks about this underground crypt by evoking several graves. “Serpent Rouge” is a very important text. It was writing by somebody who returned into the crypt...
Is the crypt 'booby trapped'? Is it easily marked, and would it be feasible for an excavation to take place? Have you done any archaeological surveying?
I do not think that the crypt is booty trapped... I did not realize archaeological surveying. Concerning the grave of Rennes les Bains the place is not known exactly.
Did the Cathars and the Knights Templar in the area know of this crypt? Did ancient families in the area know of it?
I think that some Cathars knew the existence of this crypt. I think it for various reasons. It is important to know that the discovery of the relics of Magdalene at Saint Maximin joins in the crusade against Cathars. The discovery takes place while the crusade is still very violent. After the discovery of the grave, Dominicans takes up Saint Maximin's basilica and expel without care the Benedictine monks who were there. Now, the order of Dominicans was exactly created to fight against the Cathars. The invention of the relics of Saint Maximin is thus an episode of this crusade. Why this manipulation? I have the conviction that the Church invented a false grave of Magdalene at Saint Maximin to divert from the true grave of Magdalene. Because the true grave of Magdalene contained the body of Jesus! Doubtless, the Church learnt it during search of Cathar texts or heretics' interrogation. We know that Cathars possessed very ancient Gnostics texts such as the Gospel of Thomas. These texts had been brought or written in South of France by the first Christians gathered round Magdalene. It is likely that some of these texts evoked the grave of Magdalene. Regrettably, all these papers were destroyed by the Church. But, several religious' writers (as Pierre des Vaux de Cernay) assert that Cathars conveyed blasphemous information about Magdalene...For the Knights Templar, I did not work on this subject. Idem for the ancient families of this area. I believe rather has a transmission within certain religious orders... You should not forget that several Cathars integrated monasteries as at Prouille...
Who else apart from the Magdalene, if your scenario is correct, had knowledge of this burial, and who may even have helped her?
Very few persons were informed. Apart from the Magdalene, we can quote Claudia Procula and Pilate... Maybe, also, Sergius Paulus. Sergius Paulus was proconsul of the island of Cyprus. The island of Cyprus is the first stopover of Magdalene having left Jerusalem. Now we find Sergius Paulus in Rome at the same time as Magdalene. Then, we find him to Narbonne (Narbo Martius in the Roman period), which is the real port of arrival of Magdalene in the South of France... We can also think that Sergius Paulus was a part of those who helped Magdalene...
The Romans at the time were hunting down the 'Jesus Party' & his family. So why wasnt Tiberius? Isnt it all a bit too easy? How did Claudia Procula assist Mary Magdalene?
The persecutions of the Roman against the Christians began later. At the time of Jesus we have no trace of this. The only then given evidence of conflict set the Jews against the Christians! The Acts of the Apostles evoke this conflict... Pilatus condemned Jesus against his will... Several traditions retain the memory of this tolerance of the Roman power towards Jesus... Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225) writes that Tiberius proposed the apotheosis (= deification) of Jesus to the Senate. Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 265 -339) writes the same thing... Claudia Procula assured the protection of Magdalene. She introduced her to the emperor. She gave her material assistance.
Have you found other documents that support your theory?
For the part of the inquiry concerning the Antiquity, there are few other documents so explicit. But I discovered very interesting elements on this subject in the XIXth century. In my previous books, I have already referred to an article that appeared in the French magazine “L’Initiation” (" The Initiation ") in 1897. The author of this article, the doctor Fugairon, asserted his conviction that the grave of Jesus was in the South of France. In my new book, I speak about a more surprising text. It is about a work signed by a certain Louis Martin. This work was published in 1886. Its title is: “Les Evangiles sans Dieu” (“Gospels without God”). Louis Martin asserts too that Magdalene brought back the body of Jesus to the South of France. He says where the body of Christ still rests. He describes his grave. He also asserts that Magdalene was the wife of Jesus. And that she has had a son by Jesus, born in the South of France. These assertions were taken back by several members of the Gnostic Church such as the doctor Fugairon. The Gnostic Church is a parallel church established in the end of the XIXth century. It was much implanted in the region of Rennes-les-Bains at the time of the abbot Boudet... Some of its members carried out field works... For example, in the caves which sheltered formerly the Cathars. It is likely that Plantard had access to archives emanating from this group...
Who has knowledge of the tomb and crypt now?
I believe that Pierre Plantard and Philippe de Chérisey knew something. We have letters of Philippe de Chérisey written in 1964 and 1965 to his fiancée. In these letters, Philippe de Chérisey speaks about researches that he makes with Pierre Plantard in Pyrenees to find the grave of Magdalene. I think that both men found something. In “Serpenrt Rouge”, written or re-written by Pierre Plantard, it is a question of the grave of Magdalene. In “Circuit” a text written by Philippe de Cherisey, it is also a question of Magdalene and of the grave of one "Great Roman ". In these two texts, the grave is situated in Rennes-les-Bains. This discovery is at the origin of the hoax orchestrated around the affair of Rennes-le-Château by Plantard and Cherisey. Pierre Plantard inspired the first book on Rennes-le-Château. This book was written by Gerard de Sède. But it is Plantard who drew the main lines of this book. This book is a coded book. He speaks seemingly only about a material treasure connected to Bérenger Saunière. But really, it evokes the grave and Rennes-les-Bains. Gerard de Sède writes about a man who knows a big secret that he cannot reveal directly. He has to tell it in a coded way, to be sure that we cannot understand him. “He has to create a sea in which to throw the information without too much risk, for example like a ‘message in a bottle’ of the message which he holds in bottle” said Gerard de Sède. This sea is the hoax of Rennes-le-Château! Why? First, for not directly talking of his discovery.
But there is more! Plantard makes multiple references to Nostradamus. One he mentions is the prediction of the discovery of a grave of a “Great Roman”. He asserts that this discovery will engender a new religion. This assertion is important. It allows us to suppose that this grave of the “Great Roman” is the one of Jesus, built thanks to Tiberius or Claudius. In a prophecy, Nostradamus says that the grave will be accidentally found by people looking for some gold... It is likely that Pierre Plantard tried to make this prediction come true. Note that these predictions of Nostradamus have nothing of the supernatural. Nostradamus had family links with the region of Rennes-les-Bains. And we know that he stayed in Carcassonne. He was able to acquaint himself, in this region, with certain traditions about the grave...
What are your plans for the site? Have you told authorities? Archaeologists?
There is more work to be made concerning the localization of the grave... If these researches succeed, it will be difficult for archaeologists. The “official historians” ignore the kind of theories which I present here... They learnt the official history and are there to perpetuate it. The discovery of the grave of Jesus would not be without social consequence. The official history serves the power in place... Now, the discovery of the grave of Christ would be an accelerating element of the current constitution of a new Christianity. A Christianity returned to its source. A Christianity which is a real forces of opposition...
I think that some Cathars knew the existence of this crypt. I think it for various reasons. It is important to know that the discovery of the relics of Magdalene at Saint Maximin joins in the crusade against Cathars. The discovery takes place while the crusade is still very violent. After the discovery of the grave, Dominicans takes up Saint Maximin's basilica and expel without care the Benedictine monks who were there. Now, the order of Dominicans was exactly created to fight against the Cathars. The invention of the relics of Saint Maximin is thus an episode of this crusade. Why this manipulation? I have the conviction that the Church invented a false grave of Magdalene at Saint Maximin to divert from the true grave of Magdalene. Because the true grave of Magdalene contained the body of Jesus! Doubtless, the Church learnt it during search of Cathar texts or heretics' interrogation. We know that Cathars possessed very ancient Gnostics texts such as the Gospel of Thomas. These texts had been brought or written in South of France by the first Christians gathered round Magdalene. It is likely that some of these texts evoked the grave of Magdalene. Regrettably, all these papers were destroyed by the Church. But, several religious' writers (as Pierre des Vaux de Cernay) assert that Cathars conveyed blasphemous information about Magdalene...For the Knights Templar, I did not work on this subject. Idem for the ancient families of this area. I believe rather has a transmission within certain religious orders... You should not forget that several Cathars integrated monasteries as at Prouille...
Who else apart from the Magdalene, if your scenario is correct, had knowledge of this burial, and who may even have helped her?
Very few persons were informed. Apart from the Magdalene, we can quote Claudia Procula and Pilate... Maybe, also, Sergius Paulus. Sergius Paulus was proconsul of the island of Cyprus. The island of Cyprus is the first stopover of Magdalene having left Jerusalem. Now we find Sergius Paulus in Rome at the same time as Magdalene. Then, we find him to Narbonne (Narbo Martius in the Roman period), which is the real port of arrival of Magdalene in the South of France... We can also think that Sergius Paulus was a part of those who helped Magdalene...
The Romans at the time were hunting down the 'Jesus Party' & his family. So why wasnt Tiberius? Isnt it all a bit too easy? How did Claudia Procula assist Mary Magdalene?
The persecutions of the Roman against the Christians began later. At the time of Jesus we have no trace of this. The only then given evidence of conflict set the Jews against the Christians! The Acts of the Apostles evoke this conflict... Pilatus condemned Jesus against his will... Several traditions retain the memory of this tolerance of the Roman power towards Jesus... Tertullian (c. 160 – c. 225) writes that Tiberius proposed the apotheosis (= deification) of Jesus to the Senate. Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 265 -339) writes the same thing... Claudia Procula assured the protection of Magdalene. She introduced her to the emperor. She gave her material assistance.
Have you found other documents that support your theory?
For the part of the inquiry concerning the Antiquity, there are few other documents so explicit. But I discovered very interesting elements on this subject in the XIXth century. In my previous books, I have already referred to an article that appeared in the French magazine “L’Initiation” (" The Initiation ") in 1897. The author of this article, the doctor Fugairon, asserted his conviction that the grave of Jesus was in the South of France. In my new book, I speak about a more surprising text. It is about a work signed by a certain Louis Martin. This work was published in 1886. Its title is: “Les Evangiles sans Dieu” (“Gospels without God”). Louis Martin asserts too that Magdalene brought back the body of Jesus to the South of France. He says where the body of Christ still rests. He describes his grave. He also asserts that Magdalene was the wife of Jesus. And that she has had a son by Jesus, born in the South of France. These assertions were taken back by several members of the Gnostic Church such as the doctor Fugairon. The Gnostic Church is a parallel church established in the end of the XIXth century. It was much implanted in the region of Rennes-les-Bains at the time of the abbot Boudet... Some of its members carried out field works... For example, in the caves which sheltered formerly the Cathars. It is likely that Plantard had access to archives emanating from this group...
Who has knowledge of the tomb and crypt now?
I believe that Pierre Plantard and Philippe de Chérisey knew something. We have letters of Philippe de Chérisey written in 1964 and 1965 to his fiancée. In these letters, Philippe de Chérisey speaks about researches that he makes with Pierre Plantard in Pyrenees to find the grave of Magdalene. I think that both men found something. In “Serpenrt Rouge”, written or re-written by Pierre Plantard, it is a question of the grave of Magdalene. In “Circuit” a text written by Philippe de Cherisey, it is also a question of Magdalene and of the grave of one "Great Roman ". In these two texts, the grave is situated in Rennes-les-Bains. This discovery is at the origin of the hoax orchestrated around the affair of Rennes-le-Château by Plantard and Cherisey. Pierre Plantard inspired the first book on Rennes-le-Château. This book was written by Gerard de Sède. But it is Plantard who drew the main lines of this book. This book is a coded book. He speaks seemingly only about a material treasure connected to Bérenger Saunière. But really, it evokes the grave and Rennes-les-Bains. Gerard de Sède writes about a man who knows a big secret that he cannot reveal directly. He has to tell it in a coded way, to be sure that we cannot understand him. “He has to create a sea in which to throw the information without too much risk, for example like a ‘message in a bottle’ of the message which he holds in bottle” said Gerard de Sède. This sea is the hoax of Rennes-le-Château! Why? First, for not directly talking of his discovery.
But there is more! Plantard makes multiple references to Nostradamus. One he mentions is the prediction of the discovery of a grave of a “Great Roman”. He asserts that this discovery will engender a new religion. This assertion is important. It allows us to suppose that this grave of the “Great Roman” is the one of Jesus, built thanks to Tiberius or Claudius. In a prophecy, Nostradamus says that the grave will be accidentally found by people looking for some gold... It is likely that Pierre Plantard tried to make this prediction come true. Note that these predictions of Nostradamus have nothing of the supernatural. Nostradamus had family links with the region of Rennes-les-Bains. And we know that he stayed in Carcassonne. He was able to acquaint himself, in this region, with certain traditions about the grave...
What are your plans for the site? Have you told authorities? Archaeologists?
There is more work to be made concerning the localization of the grave... If these researches succeed, it will be difficult for archaeologists. The “official historians” ignore the kind of theories which I present here... They learnt the official history and are there to perpetuate it. The discovery of the grave of Jesus would not be without social consequence. The official history serves the power in place... Now, the discovery of the grave of Christ would be an accelerating element of the current constitution of a new Christianity. A Christianity returned to its source. A Christianity which is a real forces of opposition...
Right
Map of Languedoc Roussillon (South of France) with the various villages and the streams indicated in the above article (with their Roman name). |
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For more on the work of Christian Doumerge - see his website here: http://www.christiandoumergue.com/
For a look at the document 'Avenging of the Saviour' see here: http://www.rhedesium.com/the-avenging-of-the-saviour.html
For a look at the document 'Avenging of the Saviour' see here: http://www.rhedesium.com/the-avenging-of-the-saviour.html